I thought I would start off with a topic that can be controversial at times (or for some), but I thought it's a good time to bring it out more publically after I saw some posts on other online forums. The topic of duality, good vs evil, dark vs light. Peter and I have discussed this briefly before, but let's bring it out in the open. To give an example, I saw a post on an enochian magick forum where someone asked about invocation of angels. Immediately an answer popped up: "be careful if you invoke an angel because you can have a demon come through at the same time".
This clearly illustrates an example of our duality thought process. So many assume that angels are "good" and demons are "bad". My own experience can't be farther from the truth. There is no absolute good and absolute evil (some might say Moloch, but lets leave that for another time), it's all shades of grey. Even the deities do not see everything in absolute good and evil. Amongst themselves they have ones they like more and others they like less. Not unlike our own society. Even in my own social circle I have friends who don't get along with each other. I won't invite them to be in the same place at the same time. And it's the same with them, angels and "demons". We seem to forget that many of them started out together, all angels. In my opinion, they are all still angels. I don't like using the word demon since it has too much of a negative connetation to it, but I'll keep using it here for clarity sake. So some of the angels decided to go their own way and get a job somewhere else. Humans have made a bigger deal of the two fractions than they do themselves. I am sure there is an angel somewhere who I won't get along with. Just like there is a demon I get along with very well (and an angel). My patron angel even told me outright that she doesn't mind me working with my mentor demon. I'm pretty sure they know each other well and I believe they get along better than some of my friends get along with each other. Let's discuss....
Excellent topic, thank you for starting this topic.
As we already discussed before in our private conversations, to us at WOA there is no such thing as bad/evil. This is just the duality we create to be able to classify things.
Let me ilustrate this with an example: Let's say i shoot and kill someone. Is this good or bad?
Depends of the circumstances that are involved in this action. If there is no reason for my action, this could be considered as bad. But if i do this to protect a child, we are talking about a good action.
To us all is energy, it depends on the use of them if it would be clasified as good or bad.
Angels are no different than demons, they just work in a different way. Even the names are something we invented to classify energies.
The word demon comes from the greek word DAEMON, which means: (δαίμων: "god", "godlike", "power", "fate"), which originally referred to a lesser deity or guiding spirit such as the daemons of ancient Greek religion and mythology and of later Hellenistic religion and philosophy
The word is derived from Proto-Indo-European *daimon "provider, divider (of fortunes or destinies)," from the root *da- "to divide". Daimons were possibly seen as the souls of men of the golden age acting as tutelary deities
When working with daemon or angels you can feel their energies but it are your own insecurities and mental processes that will make you feel afraid, insecure, overpowered, etc...
From the moment mankind lost it's connection with it's inner spirit, and our mind took over, we started to make things dual and to classify. This is the root problem of the topic we are discussing.
We were "driven away from paradise" , not by a particular God, we just didn't fit in anymore. You can compare it with trying to mix water and oil
Great topic. let's continue
So far all my conversations with my different deities have occured either during vivd dream states or meditation. I'll explain, just in case there are some readers who are beginning with their spiritual work or anyone else who does not experience it that way. In my vivid dream states I know that I am dreaming and I consiously make the decision to "find" them or call them. The other way is when I medidate and get images or concepts, but it's always after the fact. Similar to seeing something in the real world and it takes a millisecond for your brain to register what it is. Others try sometimes to do full body invocation where the appearance is as solid as a piece ofr furniture, but I haven't tried that yet. To bring it back to the duality, the appearance of the solid figure of the deity is clearly dependent on our own ideas of them, which in turn can be influenced by this aspect of duality. For example, I have heard some say that Belial appears with full goat horns and that Azazel is around 12 foot tall. Others have said that some of the archangels appear as silver with a blue-ish hue and a white robe. I doubt that Belial really has goat horns, to me he has appeared in my vivid dream state as lean, trim, Tommy Lee-look alike with black feather angel wings. In fact, his face was the first time like a skeleton but painted white with red cheecks. So I told him that I have heard of his different apperances but his face in this one is not that charming. He laughed and immediately changed it to the Tommy Lee face. Also, to the person who Azazel appeared as 12ft tall, do we really believe an anciet deity with that kind of power would be 12 ft tall? Why not 20ft or why even a humanoid figure? All of these images are part projections of our own thoughts about them (incl the fearful images Hollywood horror movies have placed inside our minds) and part them projecting something we would recognize.
Another aspect of the duality is the self-fulfilling prophecy of our own mind. Peter has touched on this above with our own insecurities. If we believe that Vine or Bune or (insert any other demon name) are going to have this terrifiying image and immediate make our heads spin 360 degrees, then that's what our minds are going to give us. I'm sure we can start a whole topic on posessions, but I truly believe that none of the high-ranking daemons/fallen angels would waste their time possessing someone. They really have much better things to do. I do believe their might be much lower type of energies that would either imitate or use their names and combine that with our Hollywood indoctrinated images of "evil" (see that duality again), then use that against us.
I completely agree with the fact that the experiences we have with these spirit energies depend largely on our own preconceived ideas of what should happen or what we should see. Why should a spirit want to take a specific form? What would be the purpose of it? The experience depends completely on our perception of duality.
I contact the energies always through meditation. This gives me a very intense experience with each spirit. Most of the times, they appear as energy, and hardly take any form or shape. In my experience it makes it a lot easier to work with them because therer is no need to focuss on any form or shae, just the experience and connection between the spirits energy and my own.
Do you still use something like the LRBP and/or LRH and then meditate inside this circle? If you don't follow this, what techniques to do you use in combination with your meditation to talk with the spirits? I know some do full invocation and wonder if they need more elaborate protection than using meditation combined with an astral temple? Recently I asked my guardian angel during meditation what she thinks of me talking to her during the day, since some spirits don't want to chit chat and just get down to business. Only one word came through which was "liking". It's still fascinating to me how these messages come through like a flash card surprise :).
Also, there is an interesting discussion between invocation and evocation. I'm not sure how many others read our posts, but I think it can be useful for those who are just getting into spiritual work and/or ceremonial magick. There are practitioners of Solomonic type magick who would "bind" the goetidemons through the archangels and then "force" the demon to do what they want. In this case it's evocation. Personally, I do not prefer to go that route since it's essentially again acknowledgement of the duality concept. The only reason we would bind a spirit through the archangels if we believe that the spirit is going to do us harm so we need protection from said spirit. Furthermore, it then seems that the practitioner feels that it's worthwile to coerce a spirit in doing the practitioners bidding. No wonder there are horror stories out there. I would get pretty upset if someone forces me to do something against my will. For us that work with spirits of all kinds, whether they are called angelic, demon, olympic etc, invocation seems a more productive way (invocation is calling upon the spirit without binding/forcing it). Invocation also seems logical if we agree with the assumption that the spirits do not care that much who we work with. I will add that I feel it's always better to confirm this, for example my guardian angel told me outright that she didn't mind me working with a certain Goetic demon. We don't want to end up working with a spirit our guarduan has issues with (yes, just like us, they don't all get along).
I only use meditation and the invocation cards or specific amulets to contact with the spirits. I experienced that they don't like to be summoned with force. I respect their days and hours and invite them to connect with me. The most importat is to show respect for them but without fear. I also use candles when appropriate.
The biggest mistake you can make is to treat them as dogs you can order around.
We only use circles in the amulets. These are to protect the unexperienced so they are not overwhelmed by the different energies. Even when we create an amulet, we never bind the spirit energy to it. We only ask them to embed the amulet with their power for the benefit of the person who ordered it. They never ever had a problem with it. Sometimes it takes several sessions but they always agree.
I don't know if you mind sharing, since everyone has their own way, but could you explain how you use the amulet during meditation? Currently, I don't use amulets and work on developing my clearsentience abilities, but it would be great to incorporate some of the comminucation amulets when they arrive. A few days ago I was meditating, using a custom enn, part grimoire, part personalized for my patron. Usually it takes me 10-20min just to get to a point where my mind is clear and I "feel" that I have broken through a veil (not sure which one). While this happens I get super hot, I can feel a sweat drop for on my nose. This was very strange for me in the beginning since I am sitting completely still. After some research it turns out that there are a few meditation experts that also get hot. Anyway, after all of that a few days ago, suddenly everything calmed down and with my third eye I could see these grey compact clouds and they would morph into a humanoid face. Quite clear since its like a light grey cloud on a black background of course. It was something unique for me since my mind didn't go all chaotic or anything, but very calm and seeing a few appear and then go away. I'm still working on holding it for longer and maybe building an astral temple or astral space around it. So any info/tips on practical use of the amulets during meditation would be great :).
The amulets work are used as a way of intensifying and facilitating the contact with a particular spirit. It makes it a lot easier working with them. When i use them the contact is much clearer and as well as the messages they may have. I always wear an amulet and ring at the same time. Not necesarily of the same spirit but i try them to be complementary in case they are from different spirits.
Sometimes i put an amulet between both hands when i send out my petition to a particular spirit. In the videos of the rituals i explain the reason.
Here are 2 videos of rituals:
@Peter Vermeeren , boa tarde, dentre desse assunto gosaria de informações , de como ativa-los , pois desde que comprei que já uns 6 meses , não sei como fazer para ativa-los, já procurei na internet toda e só tem ativação planetaria e salomonica ,aí na duvida prefiro nem fazer , e o produto que adquiri neste site esta parado até hoje , e eu precisando muito, agradeço se poder me ajudar nesse sentido.
@Hildebrando Inácio Brioschi Please post in english or spanish. Other languages, send an email to email@example.com